SOUND JUDGMENT, THE PODCAST - EP03 PUBLISHED ON 10/13/2022

Research shows that young podcast listeners seek two specific things: a fresh, unique perspective and a sense of belonging. At Pantsuit Politics, co-hosts Beth Silvers and Sarah Stewart Holland have been bringing fresh perspectives and a sense of belonging to their listeners — who now number in the millions — for seven years.  From the start, Pantsuit Politics was different. They were analyzing the ways politics shape how we live and how we feel about it. It takes skill, chemistry, and diplomacy to work together seamlessly the way Silvers and Stewart Holland do. We talk about their very different approaches to hosting, and how they perform as interlocking puzzle pieces — and why they feel it's even more important for the show to serve them than to serve their ever-growing, devoted audience. 

How to be a great podcast co-host: Takeaways from Sarah Stewart Holland and Beth Silvers

1. Respond from a place of humanity.

As co-hosts of a news and politics show, Sarah and Beth are driven by what’s happening in the world. 

“A lot of the news media and a lot of the political podcasters are in that same reactive posture. We just try to take a very different approach. We try to react from a place of humanity, instead of a place of expertise; a place of lived experience, instead of a place of … ‘decided-upon’ perspective. We really just try to show up as our whole selves.” 

2. Don’t try to be a brand. Be yourself. 

“We are here to be Sarah and Beth. And so our honest reactions after the [2016] election, I hope are the kinds of honest reflections that you get anytime you listen to our show.”

3. Take your listeners on your journey, no matter where it takes you. 

Accepting and being transparent about her own evolution was particularly important for Beth. In 2015, when they launched Pantsuit Politics, their premise was that although they came from opposite sides of the political spectrum — Beth was a Republican, Sarah a Democrat — they could hold nuanced, “grace-filled conversations.” That changed after the 2016 election, Beth says — a change that easily could have threatened the show.

“Trump was the beginning of the end for me as anything that someone in 2022 would identify as conservative,” Beth says. “And I've tried to be really honest with our audience about that. We didn’t get stuck in a brand.” Instead, the podcast evolved as they evolved. 

“What we're doing is changing all the time,” Sarah says. “That's what’s so life-giving about it. That's why we like to do it. That's why I think our audience is so invested. The work at Pantsuit Politics — it's an invitation to just take a journey with us.”

4. Their secret to producing Pantsuit Politics for more than seven years

“We know that we can continue to do this at the rate that we do because it's always met a need for us. And it continues to meet the need… We really wanted to sit down and have this conversation that we weren't hearing somewhere else.... And when it stops feeling like that, we check in with each other and say, 'Do we need to take a break? Do we need to shift the topics?' If we started down a path, we [may] need to ditch that path because we want to come back to meeting this need that we have.

“And so that's our guiding light: If it doesn't feel helpful to us as individuals, it’s not going to be good content for the audience. And we need to take a step back.” — Beth

5. Differences are essential for a good co-hosting partnership. Lean in.  

It’s not just OK to look at the world through different lenses. It’s a fundamental reason to have a co-host in the first place.  

“Our general thesis from the beginning of the show [has been that] personality is a huge part of politics. And our personalities are different… you hear that a lot in the show. And I think our strength is that we allow both things to be true. We allow both perspectives to live and thrive and trust that the audience will gain something from each of them, because we absolutely gain something from each of them.” — Sarah

How are you similar to and different from your co-host? When you’re different, like Sarah and Beth, the sum of your parts is greater than the whole. As Beth says, “I can't imagine doing this with someone who was just like me, or really with anyone else. I think it is the contrast that is interesting to listen to.”

6. Who are you? What do you value? Who do you want to be to your listeners? 

Beth can sound professorial — wise and a bit distant. Sarah is more emotional and expressive. As she says, “It’s not unusual for me to cry on the show.” These two personalities, both naturally who they are, complement each other like interlocking puzzle pieces.

7. Resist the temptation to sacrifice deep thinking for speed. 

Being first with a scoop may feel crucial. But often the more valuable content is not that which we can publish immediately. Thoughtfully unpacking the news, a cultural phenomenon, or a feeling, is often far more valuable to listeners.

“Honestly, just can we slow down for a second? Not compete for the hottest take or the correct take? For the one-liner that's quotable… but instead really figure out what are we talking about? Why is [that headline] so captivating to everybody? What is it touching that we aren’t naming, [the real reason] that makes us fascinated by it?” — Beth

8. When you know your listeners well, you can meet their needs.

“Sometimes, we have a really in-depth look at an issue planned. And we realize our audience is worn out right now. We're just hearing it in emails, they're tired. They need something… people need some delight. How can we serve up some delight right now? Maybe we need it too.” — Beth

9. A simple way to understand what your audience wants: real-life avatars

“We have an amazing community manager, Maggie Penton, who just reads the room. She’s really good at [knowing] this is where people are at right now; this is what we're struggling with. She's also just an excellent listener avatar. She’s been listening to our show for a really long time.” — Sarah

10. Listen to your audience — and your heart

“We're not going to produce a show that we feel everyone's consumed with if we don't want to talk about it ourselves.” — Sarah

11. How to avoid perfectionism

“I just tell myself, we're gonna make another one. We can get that wrong. There are two a week, you know, we will have another chance if we feel like we missed the mark.” – Sarah

12. Set yourself apart from the competition

“We’re constantly pushing ourselves to say, ‘what could we add?’ Because every conversation is so saturated. When we started Pantsuit Politics, there weren't a million…news and politics podcasts, it was a totally different time…. Quiet quitting is a good example. When we discussed having this as a topic, [we asked] what could we possibly say about this that hasn't been said? We are challenging ourselves all the time to ask, what's new? Or what could we say differently? Or how are we thinking about this that we haven't heard somewhere else or read somewhere else?” — Beth

13. The value of premium channels goes far beyond revenue

Rather than reporting on and analyzing every headline, Sarah and Beth confine themselves to a few well-chosen topics each week. The freedom they feel to be selective comes in part from having “escape valves” — premium feeds that satisfy the needs of different listeners. 

“In the beginning, we felt like we had to…report on every news story. We don't do that anymore. Because there's lots of new summary podcasts. We produce one every day, so if you’re into that, you can get it on our premium channel…. Our premium content that we produce has…freed us up to approach the show differently, because we know there's other places where if that's what the listener is looking for, they can find it.” — Sarah

14. Emotional intimacy builds devoted communities.

“I didn’t understand how deeply people connect with a voice that they listen to. Sarah says, all the time, ‘You can't skim a podcast.’ People do connect, because you're in their ears and they are paying attention. And there's something really powerful about spending almost two hours a week with the two of us just in your headphones, as you're buzzing about doing other things — when we are a part of dog walks and laundry and dinner preparation and commutes.” — Beth

15. Stop overthinking.

What Beth wishes she’d known about hosting when they started: “Understanding the entire premise of your show — that it is about the host. I am not trying to make something. I'm just being and letting people into the experience of me being. Developing that trust in myself is a journey that I'm still on…. If I could go back, I would say to myself, ‘Don't overthink this. Just trust that you can just be you and that's what people are here for.’”

More about Sarah and Beth

Sarah Stewart Holland and Beth Silvers host the popular podcast Pantsuit Politics, which was named one of 2021’s best shows by Apple Podcasts and has been featured in The New York Times, The Atlantic, Good Morning America 3, The Guardian, Elle Magazine, and Parents Magazine. They are also the authors of Now What? How to Move Forward When We’re Divided (About Basically Everything) (2022) and  I Think You’re Wrong (But I’m Listening): A Guide to Grace-Filled Political Conversation (2019), which was featured on MSNBC’s Morning Joe. Sarah and Beth met in college before going their separate ways for law school. Sarah pursued a career in politics as a congressional staffer and campaign aide and Beth practiced law before serving as a human resources executive. Sarah lives in Paducah, KY, with her spouse, Nicholas, and children Griffin, Amos, and Felix. Beth lives in Union, KY, with her spouse, Chad, and children Jane and Ellen. Sarah’s dog, Cookie, and Beth’s dog, Lucy, are beloved (and involuntary) contributors to their work.

A note about Sound Judgment: We believe that no host does good work alone. All hosts rely on their producers, the hidden hands that enable a host to shine. We strive to give credit to producers whenever it’s possible to do so.

The episode(s) discussed on today’s Sound Judgment: 

November 9, 2016, Special Episode - Results

September 7, 2022: Quiet Quitting and the Limits of Language

Managing Producer: Alise Napp

Community Manager: Maggie Penton

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Sound Judgment is a production of Podcast Allies, LLC. 

Host: Elaine Appleton Grant

Project Manager: Tina Bassir

Sound Designer: Andrew Parella

Illustrator: Sarah Edgell

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